Building an Authentic Executive Brand Through Thought Leadership with Marina Byezhanova

Brent Peterson (00:01.774)
Welcome to this episode of Uncharted Entrepreneurship. Today I have Marina Byezhanova Byezhanova? And I didn't even practice and I'm sure I butchered your name Marina. I'm really sorry, but yeah, she is the CEO of Brand of a Leader. Marina, go ahead, give us an introduction. Pronounce your last name for me and tell us your day-to-day role and one of your passions.

Marina (00:12.656)
You're dead.

Marina (00:26.634)
Of course. First of all, thank you for having me on your show, Brent. So my name is Marina Byezhanova I was born and raised in Ukraine, and thus the last name, which when my family moved to Canada was the bane of my existence. Nobody could pronounce it. I was a teenager. I was mortified. Today, it works in my favor, because if you Google Marina Byezhanova, nobody else comes up. So in images, videos, actual pages and pages, Google search, it's only me.

I own Brandeville Leader, which is a personal branding agency for Gen X CEOs and founder CEOs. So will work with clients in 12 different countries. I'm a fellow EO member of almost 11 years now. And my passion, I love playing chess. That's one passion that most people don't know about. But when we play, they learn that I am not that bad. I won a Ukrainian championship as a kid. I'm very proud of that.

And my other big passion is spending time with my kids. I have a 15-year-old and a nine-year-old who came with me to Hawaii to the Global Leadership Conference that we both attended. And my big passion is involving them in all things where I merge my professional life and my personal life.

Brent Peterson (01:34.802)
That's great. Yeah. And my arc or previous company, our kids all worked. Our kids are a little older than yours and I have a grandson coming to Hawaii in two weeks. So we're very excited to have my daughter and our grandson here. But anyways, before we get started talking about content and our branding and, all the fun things that we're going to go over to the EO, I'm going to tell you a joke and I'll wait, you're going to tell me a joke, right? Is that the way we decided earlier?

Marina (01:49.166)
So fun.

Marina (02:01.934)
Hello, hello, what? I can hear you, what?

Brent Peterson (02:05.05)
I'm gonna tell you a joke and all you have to do is give me a rating 8 through 13. So here we go. I went for a job interview to IKEA. The manager said come in and make a seat.

Marina (02:20.142)
No, I got it. Pause took me a moment. From eight to 13, it's a 10 and a half. Why eight to 13?

Brent Peterson (02:31.482)
Because 10 if we edit it out, you're gonna be giving me more than a 10. So thank you very much

Marina (02:39.762)
I love that. That's fun. That's a very cool thing. As I said, I was nervous for a moment as you could have seen that you were going to make me tell a joke, but I love that you do that.

Brent Peterson (02:48.154)
I used to speak at events in Germany quite a bit and I would always start out by saying I love that the German flag represents the colors of humor and that color is blue.

Marina (03:02.446)
I love that people laugh. Did you get laughs or they didn't? It does not connect. You've been banned, that's it. Love them.

Brent Peterson (03:06.666)
No, they didn't get it. They all kicked me out. Yeah, that's I'm not allowed to speak in Germany anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you got started in what you're doing. And yeah, start, start kind of with the founding story.

Marina (03:25.454)
So as an immigrant to Canada, one of my biggest dreams for myself was to have a voice, to be able to stand out in a way that still has me accepted with people, stand out while fitting in and having a voice. so completely unrelated to any idea of I'm building a brand or anything like that. I just started speaking, I started guesting on podcasts, contributing to articles.

then started being sought out by Fast Company and Success Magazine and things like that for interviews. And all of a sudden, I had this realization, Brent, that when we, as CEOs of our businesses, build visibility around ourselves and thought leadership, it's great for our business. And so all of a sudden, I started seeing all of those different business I was running at the time, and I started seeing that there was impact on our SEO, on the quality of clients, the volume of clients that were coming in, quality of job applicants that were coming in.

And then I looked around and said, well, are other CEOs doing this? Are they also putting themselves out there? Because this is really great for business. And realized that they weren't. And as I started speaking to fellow EO members and to YPO members and started asking, hey, Brent, are you also building your visibility as CEOs and your thought leadership? And would hear, no, no. Who wants to hear what I have to say? No.

Or people would compliment me on what I'm doing and I would say, why aren't you doing this? And same answer, who wants to hear from me? No, you have things to say, but not me. Which of course, sounded absurd to me because we all have a voice, we all have something of value to say and we're building these incredible businesses and of course we can bring a lot of value to conversations and thought leadership conversations. And that's how the idea of Roundable Leader was born. I said, well, if we're able to figure out a process because business owners

We don't always love processes, but we trust them. If there's a process where we can help you access your thought leadership, figure out something of value to say, and then help you say it in a way that feels authentic and meaningful, well then maybe you'll do it. Because it's my biggest dream is for people to have a voice and scale the reach of their voices. Launched Brandeval Leader four years ago. It took off remarkably. We've worked with clients now in 12 countries. I have a team of 17.

Marina (05:40.82)
And as said, work with GenX CEOs and founder CEOs and help them find their voice, prove to them that they have something of value to say so that they thus serve the organizations better as well.

Brent Peterson (05:53.86)
Do you find that just having a leader do some work on thought leadership helps them to understand their industry better? Does it help them to be able to then articulate back to their team, hey, I understand this, or even better, find something new that maybe they've been left out of?

Marina (06:12.76)
Hugely so. What a great question and nobody ever asks that question. It's a great question. Yes. So number one, well, we help leaders find an angle that feels unique and so that they feel that first of all, they're bringing something of value to the conversation, that they're not just sharing the same things that everyone else in the industry is sharing. So first of all, that's helpful.

But second of all, of course, as you work on your thought leadership and you're constantly refining it, let's say you're guesting on podcasts, which is a great way of building visibility, you're always answering questions. Often it is similar questions. So you're able to refine your thought leadership, your speaking points, and then of course bring it back to the industry, but also to your...

team as well. Same as if you're doing public speaking, the biggest value of thought leadership growth is not from the talk that you're giving, which is the same thing often over and over again. It's the Q &A, where you're able to sometimes pause and say, I'm not sure what the answer is, or how do I refine it better? So it's a consistent and constant work, because certainly thought leadership is something that gets thrown around as a concept a lot, but it's something that takes work, because otherwise you're not a thought leader, you're an opinion leader.

and that's not the best place to be.

Brent Peterson (07:22.498)
Yeah, you know, I think the, the idea of making a niche and really leaning into that is important. What if in like, in my case, we, I sold my previous business and now my niche is it's different, but I get most of my thought leadership following on my previous niche. What would you tell something? What would you tell me if I were to say to you, this is my problem and I would like to

develop a new niche? it just be, could I start over? Do you kind of lean into your old niche and try to get some of those people to come along with you?

Marina (07:57.548)
It's another great question. And the thing is, the reason that happens where we become really associated with our niche is that often we make a mistake of not building a personal brand, but rather building ourselves up as a spokesperson for our business. See, a personal brand, it's much bigger than an industry niche. A personal brand needs to be an expression not of what we do, but who we are. And what we do is only one of the speaking points. When what we do is our brand,

is the main speaking point when there's no personal brand. So then I would say, you feel that I've pivoted and now all of my attention is there because I never built a personal brand, I built myself up as a spokesperson for that particular business or industry, then it's going back to the drawing board and saying, well, what is brand's brand? What is that angle that gives portability? Because as business owners, of course, we pivot. We exit sometimes voluntarily, sometimes involuntarily, right? We pivot different industries, we pivot different fields.

What is the personal brand angle that will withstand the test of time? Because it's an expression not of what you do, but who you are. When you're able to zoom out like that, and then the thought leadership content that connects to the specific vertical is only a part of the entire content puzzle, then that becomes really powerful. And then that stays with us even when we pivot and change niches, change industries, is what happened with me. I used to have a business in a completely different field before this one.

Brent Peterson (09:22.828)
And do you help them, well, guess what you're backing up, when somebody's coming to you, how do you help them come up with who they are? Do you help them with their branding and figure out here's the place where you seem to fit in the best or how does that work?

Marina (09:40.142)
What a great question. We take you through a process of deep introspection. A lot of our clients say, I thought that this was going to be a marketing exercise, and instead I feel like I'm in my shrink's office, and you're asking me about my childhood and my parents and how I grew up. We do a lot of exercises similar to the lifeline exercise that we do in EO, but with different modifications. We talk about your core values, not the business, but your personal core values. Our goal is to see, what are the common denominators and patterns?

A lot of our clients, they're serial entrepreneurs, portfolio entrepreneurs. There seem to be so many different things and they say, well, how do I put this all together? Well, the common denominator is you, right? So our goal is to figure out who you are. So we take you through a process of three deep dives where our goal is to get to know you. We take all those transcripts, those conversations, we'll put them through a linguistic analysis, pattern analysis. What are the words you're using a lot? What are the themes and topics that keep surfacing? And then we take one of those.

and we convert it into unique angle that's yours to own, and that becomes your brand angle. Everything else then, the content strategy and everything falls then, falls in under that. Of course, as part of that exercise, we'll also talk about how do you want to be perceived and not perceived, and what's your brand voice, and all those great things. But the core, most important piece is that brand angle, and also your brand story, that will weave in all of those, that concept, but will also weave in all of the seemingly disconnected

parts of your personal entrepreneurial journey, it's our job to weave them all together so that to people it feels, of course you're doing this today. It's all part of that same puzzle versus feeling like, you're doing this today. What does that have to do with what you used to do yesterday? Our goal is to help tell that story in a way that makes sense.

Brent Peterson (11:25.796)
How important is it for an entrepreneur to, in their personal brand story, to reflect back on their failures and to use that as part of their new story?

Marina (11:39.96)
I think it's on a case by case basis. I think one of the things, Brent, that I'm seeing people lean into too much because it's a trend is that somehow, like underdog story. I'm seeing too many people reach into that or some story of a struggle or something. Phoenix Rising.

I think there's always time and place. And for some people, if it's a significant part of their journey, then of course. But let's say sharing for sharing sake doesn't matter. No, there are a lot of people who can build very successful presence on the back of just optimism, positivity, and failure escaped me. There's not that many of us whom failure has escaped, but that can be part of the brand as well. So I would say, but that's why the deep dive to understand what are the stories worth telling and what are the stories that are not as impactful.

is very important. It's same as people often say, should I share my stories, my story of deep trauma, for example. And that's, such a personal case-by-case basis for some people, yes, for some people, no. But that's why, again, it's instrumental to do that deep brand dive exercise and figure those things out before going and exposing ourselves and putting ourselves out there, as most people do. That's a mistake. When we figure it out, what that correct messaging is becomes clear.

Brent Peterson (13:00.282)
Do you have surprises that people learn about themselves that you kind of uncover?

Marina (13:06.99)
all the time. One of the things that our wide brand of a leader is to help people recognize and express their greatness. So I think one of the big surprises to, it's really, one of the most rewarding part of my job is when we create our clients brand identity, we work with a lot of EO members, a lot of YPO members, I read their brand story to them. And I can tell you time and time again, our clients choke up when they hear their brand story, their personal brand story.

And so often they'll say, my god, that's me. That's, wow. and my journey, it all makes sense. It's all connected. And some will say, I'm so badass, And I go, yes, you're pretty remarkable. I think that point of realization. I think another big aha moment is that a lot of people say, what is it that I have to say that's of value, right? That's a question that I hear a lot.

And realizing that, they have a lot to say that's of value and they have something unique that they bring to the conversation, that's a huge aha moment for our clients as well.

Brent Peterson (14:15.128)
I like how you said real badass A, so you got your Canadian in there.

Marina (14:19.662)
Yes, I like that you say that. You know how hard it was to make that transition from fully Ukrainian to some Canadian as well. So I like that.

Brent Peterson (14:30.474)
you know, let's, let's spend a little bit of time on EO. Like how do you help EO members in particular? And do you feel as though EO just joining EO helps give people more of an understanding of who they are rather than I can tell you my experience before joining EO. And we've been a member about the same amount of time. My experience experience before was I thought I knew everything. I didn't need help from anybody. Do you find that EO members are more pliable than?

Marina (14:56.43)
Right? Yes.

Brent Peterson (15:00.718)
The non-EO members, or is there a difference at all in that?

Marina (15:04.981)
love working with EO members and YPO members because there is big openness to be vulnerable and dive deep. That brand identity piece is very important to us. And when we work with clients who have not experienced the whole 5 % and all of those different things, it's harder for them and they don't understand. why are we talking about it? EO members love this thing. So often we hear, I don't know what the outcome is going to be, but I loved the process. And so that's a very EO YPO thing to say. Number one.

Number two, members are great to work with because see, we work with business owners, with CEOs, with thought leaders. We don't work with influencers. When people come to us, I want to be famous, I know everything about everything, I want to have followers on Instagram. No disrespect, not our job. And EO members, they understand the concept of being more humble, experience sharing versus preaching at people. And so they become really easy to work with because we don't have to explain those things. We're in alignment on that.

So in that regard, easier.

Brent Peterson (16:08.632)
Yeah, think you keep using the words deep dive, which is great. And I just took moderator training in January. And I realized that our forum hadn't used, we just started using it and it's been around for years now. getting some of that verbiage into the forums sometimes takes a while, but just to kind of like continue on that point of being vulnerable and helping others understand who you are.

Maybe we could just talk a little bit about how it's important for entrepreneurs to be vulnerable to somebody so they can be stronger in your messaging.

Marina (16:47.566)
Well, I think it's about creating that human to human contact, right? I also, you know, I'm not on the, you know, on the train of being vulnerable for vulnerability's sake. I too was not a big fan of, you know, the crying CEO. Remember the guy who recorded himself crying on camera and that was a sign of vulnerability and it failed because it was fake vulnerability. You know, how did you start recording yourself while you were crying? How did that happen?

I believe that there is also, different people are vulnerable in different ways. What does not work when you're a CEO and you decide to put yourself out there and guest on podcasts or create content on LinkedIn or whatnot is if everything sounds like it could have just gone on your business social media page, on your business blog, on your business anything, then that's not right. It's not human.

So the degree of vulnerability, the extent of vulnerability will also depend on the person. And it's important to play to what feels authentic. I believe that a personal brand is deeply rooted in authenticity and not some PR image of you, a crafted, curated image. So that depends. But content needs to be human. And that's where a lot of GenXers struggle. Because they say, no, no, no. I don't want to say I. I want to say we. I don't want to mention anything about myself. I want to talk about my business.

and understandable. The goal is to serve the marketing function of the business usually or the HR function of the business. But that human to human connection and sharing more of ourselves then feels comfortable, at least a little bit more, is truly is very important. We connect as humans to other humans and even more so now with AI and all of those other things.

Brent Peterson (18:29.302)
You have mentioned Gen X quite a bit to tell us the difference just between Millennials and Gen X and what is it, Gen Y. Millennials, there's a new one right now. is the, there is a marked difference, yeah, Gen Z, there is a marked difference between how they interact, right?

Marina (18:39.874)
with Gen Z's.

Marina (18:44.046)
huge.

Well, listen, Gen Xers did not, A, grew up with cell phones in their hands, and then, B, never grew up with this, I'm going to share anything type of thing, right? My daughter is a Gen Z, and it's really like nothing's a secret. It's just living in public, right? Like her phone seems to always be on video with people. It's just constant, right? So they're so comfortable sharing. Gen Xers are not comfortable sharing.

and really want to be behind the business, building the business, rather than in front of the business and in the spotlight. They feel that it's narcissistic. They feel that they'll be judged, that people will say, oh, you're an attention seeker. You're a me, me, me kind of person. And so really, vast majority of our clients, would say 99%, they kind of loathe that they're working with us. They love working with us. They love brand leaders. They love the team. But they see it as a necessary evil.

rather than, yay, I'm going to be in the spotlight. Right before our conversation, I was on a call with a client. We've been working with her for a few months. And I said, how's it going? And she said, your team's great. Everything's amazing. But she's like, it's so hard. She's like, I wake up at night thinking I have a post coming out tomorrow. And it feels so uncomfortable to me. So that sums up GenX. So when we have a prospective client coming in saying, you know, I'm not like your typical client. I really don't want to be doing this. But I know this is the new, you know, this is.

Thought leadership is the new SEO currency, And so, you know what, rather than I say, no, no, no, you're in the right company. Our clients all see this as the necessary evil and this fit. For millennials, it's easier and Gen Zs are oversharers. So it's a completely other side of the spectrum.

Brent Peterson (20:27.32)
I know I keep saying one more question, but this is super interesting. You know, I have a friend who's, who's younger than me and he is a definitely, a self-promoter and that self-promotion I've gotten them a long ways, right? In their business. maybe in a few minutes we have left here, how do you coach a Gen X person to be a self-promoter and maybe a shameless self-promoter? Is there a technique to that?

Marina (20:58.434)
Yeah, so first of all, it's finding, so first of all, it's been clear on the goals and understanding that the goal is to serve the business so that we're not pursuing fame, we're not pursuing vanity metrics here, we're really pursuing, thought leadership is just expected now and the more we invest in our thought leadership, the more we grow the visibility of our business. This is just what's going on. Not only because, mean, thought leadership has been growing, but now also with big changes in SEO.

switch into AI search and now switch into AEO, which is answer engine optimization, which is rooted in thought leadership. Marketing is just really changing. so thought leadership is important to us as CEOs, but also for our entire leadership teams as well. It's just become, has become very important. So number one, realizing that importance is that we're not seeking fame. We're looking to support the growth and the scaling of our businesses, number one. Number two, it really does help when we do the deep work and they feel, okay, now there is meaning.

to what I'm putting out there. I have a unique concept, I have a unique angle, unique point of view. Having that meaning allows people to have more confidence going out there. Number three, we don't need to be shameless. We can stay within what feels authentic. You're very comfortable with LinkedIn, right? You don't need to be crazy with quantity on LinkedIn. So we tell clients that even if we start with one post a week, but it's every week and we're not skipping a week and it's always at the same time on the same day,

you're going to slowly go to the top of the feed of your contacts, and you're going to start seeing results. So we're not saying, you need to be posting five times a day on every single platform and be everywhere. And that helps as well. So having a clear and unique angle, having messaging points that feel authentic, not going all in like you're the next Gary Vee and staying true to what feels right to you as far as exposure and quantity, that works really well. And then, of course, once they start seeing results and that it's supporting the business, then that

then helps the continuity of that and makes the process a tiny little bit less icky for them.

Brent Peterson (22:57.196)
That's awesome Marina. We have a few minutes left. And so speaking of shameless I give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug when we close up the podcast What would you like to plug today?

Marina (23:07.118)
I like that. That's very non-EO, right? Where we never plug ourselves. I am always interested, open, and excited to speak with fellow CEOs, fellow business owners who are curious about building their executive brand, building their thought leadership, and don't know how. Our website is www.brandofaleader.com. Or you just copy and paste my name into LinkedIn or Google. As I said, I'm the only Marina Bajanova out there.

And if you'd like to connect and chat, I would love that. We work with the CEOs, helping them build their executive brands on the back of their thought leadership.

Brent Peterson (23:43.982)
That's perfect Marina Bajanova. Thank you so much for being here. It's been such a pleasurable conversation.

Marina (23:47.126)
You got it. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure to connect.