Embracing Unique Ways to Honor Loved Ones With Adelle Archer

Brent Peterson (00:02.555)
Welcome to this episode. Today I have Adele Archer. She is the co -founder and co -CEO of Eternava. Adele, go ahead, do an introduction. Tell us your day -to -day role and maybe one of your passions in life.

Adelle (00:15.822)
Yeah. Well, thank you very much for having me. I am one of the co -founders of Eternava and in a prior life, I worked in high tech at a fast growing venture backed tech startups in Austin, Texas. And, you know, it was my co -founder and I, we actually met while working at a tech company together and decided it was time for us to start our own. And I think it was just.

very unexpected that we ended up getting into the end of life space, but now something that is so incredibly rewarding and passion, personal passion, you know, majority of your time as an entrepreneur is hustling and grinding and building your business. but when I'm not doing that, I am a big world traveler and I love languages. And so just my dream upon exit is that I get to go live in the south of France and study wine and study French.

and just really enjoy myself. So, yeah.

Brent Peterson (01:11.899)
Wow, that's awesome. I know there is some good vineyards around Austin. I mean the climate's okay, so...

Adelle (01:17.454)
Yeah. Our diamond facility is actually right out by the vineyards. So it's really cool for any customers prospects. They can come get a tour of the world's largest Memorial diamond facility and go wine tasting in the same day. I know.

Brent Peterson (01:32.027)
Wow, exciting. I'm also, I'm a wannabe, I'm a wannabe language person. My kids went to school in Spanish and I would love to, I've been doing Duolingo for seven years now and get a good vocabulary, but I certainly don't have my spoken part down yet. So got to work on it. Maybe I'll go to.

Adelle (01:45.998)
Yeah!

Adelle (01:50.734)
You just gotta go and throw yourself into the deep end. I lived in Spain in high school for a year and I literally couldn't talk to my host family for three months, was just mute. But I figured it out and I'm very fluent because of how hard that was. Yeah.

Brent Peterson (02:05.723)
Yeah, that's awesome. Great. Amadelle, so before we start, you have graciously volunteered to be part of the free joke project. So all I'm going to do is tell you a joke. And all you have to do is say, should that joke be free or do you think we should charge for it someday? So here we go.

Adelle (02:20.846)
Okay.

Brent Peterson (02:24.283)
My email password got hacked again. That's the third time I've had to rename my cat.

Adelle (02:31.182)
That's funny. Hmm. I'm going to say that that's free just so that more cat lovers can enjoy it.

Brent Peterson (02:40.635)
There you go, perfect, thank you. Okay, so let's dive right in. Tell us a little bit about the journey. Before we start talking about Interniva, tell us about the journey and how you got there.

Adelle (02:42.926)
Nearby.

Adelle (02:54.766)
Yeah, leading up to starting it. Yeah. So actually, you know, as I mentioned, I have traveled a lot growing up. My dad is a pilot. So I think we, I had some really beautiful opportunities early on to just see a lot of different cultures and perspectives, and that really influenced me. But I've always been a very just socially minded person wanting to feel like I do impact with whatever it is that I do. So my first chapter was actually in politics.

Brent Peterson (02:56.795)
Yes.

Adelle (03:23.566)
My undergrad was political science and economics. Then I moved to Washington, DC after that. Did that for a short stint, decided, you know what, this is not for me. I think I've always been somebody that wants to solve problems and really kind of get to the heart of something. And I wasn't feeling like I was getting kind of, there wasn't an ecosystem that shared that mindset in my experience. And so it was kind of...

Very surprisingly that I met the founder of my business school that I went to in Austin, Texas. And he convinced me to come move to Texas and go through an entrepreneurial MBA. And I ended up just absolutely loving it and deciding, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do. And then I decided to, you know, go and work in tech for a while, see how venture backed fast growth companies were built, how leaders thought about scale.

So that was wonderful. Was an e -commerce at BigCommerce for a number of years, leading product marketing and launching all of our partnered products. So integrations to Amazon, eBay, Twitter, Pinterest Square, social selling, omni -channel selling. And that was fantastic. And then another company, TrendKite, that did analytics for PR. And then we started a turnover. And it really was kind of this opportunity to...

create something that was meaningful and gave back to the world in a beautiful way. And also, you know, kind of incorporated some of the perspectives that I appreciate about other cultures around end of life that I saw on my travels into how we think about things at Aternava and are now influencing American culture. So kind of ties it all together.

Brent Peterson (05:02.235)
Yeah, that's a great story. I wish some of them, this is going to be only comment about politics. I wish sometimes that politics would run like business where you're trying to solve something and move things forward rather than disrupt everything. Anyways, let's keep moving. We won't go there. So, Internova is disrupting the industry. Tell us a little bit about

Adelle (05:09.262)
Thank you.

Adelle (05:17.902)
right?

I agree more.

Brent Peterson (05:31.451)
how it's doing that in your thought process to get there.

Adelle (05:35.31)
Yeah. And you know, it's interesting because we're actually, we partner with a lot of funeral home conglomerates all over the country. So I just feel like we are more bridging the gap in my opinion, between where the consumer already is and where the industry has been and really hasn't evolved and changed. You know, I think for anybody that enters the space, like we started after I lost somebody that I really love. She was my business mentor, Tracy, and we were super close. She wasn't married, didn't have kids.

had lost her parents really young. And so she was very intentional with the people in her life, like treating them like her family. And so it was really me, her best friend, her aunt that were her caretakers as she was passing away. And, you know, just really kind of went through that process firsthand of what it means to lose somebody too soon and having the conversation with them, like, what are your wishes and how do we make sure we fulfill them and honor them? And she was like, well, you know, I want to be cremated. And then from there, like,

find something meaningful and special you think we would all really like and that you feel like is me. And so we're doing this research. What do you do with ashes? What are your different options? And honestly, not finding anything like everything we saw every website we landed on just felt really antiquated hadn't been updated in a long time. And the products just felt kind of transactional and trinkety and cheap and nothing that felt really special.

And so then, my co -founder Garrett and I actually originally we were working on a regular lab grown diamond startup. So we were working with diamond scientists. And as I was going through this personal experience, one of them actually mentioned this technology to me that you can actually turn ashes into diamonds blew my mind. and we were actually not the first company to do this. So there was a couple other companies doing this. And so I actually went to go start the process with one of those companies just in love with this idea.

And honestly, that was a turnoff too, you know, was just kind of a similar approach of it being very transactional, not personal, not asking anything about who is this person and, you know, like, who are they to you? And then really lacking a lot of transparency around the process. And I think that was ultimately why I chose not to move forward. But just looking at it was like, man, this finally feels like the thing that feels special and meaningful, but it feels like it's getting executed on wrong. And if all the science checks out,

Adelle (07:57.166)
You know, we believe there's a way to do this in a very transparent and experiential way. And that was kind of how a turnover was born. And I think fast forward to where we are today, consumers by far and away want personalization. They want celebration of life. They want something that feels meaningful. And I think what they didn't realize that they need is also kind of the experiential side, because when it's just a product, which is what a lot of the end of life industry kind of has thought about it.

Then it's transactional. It doesn't really do anything for somebody emotionally. It's just kind of like, here's the vessel that we hold the ashes in. Whereas when somebody goes through our process, it's a long process. We send pictures and videos and updates and just really walk that journey with them. We learn all about their loved one. We make it super personal. And we find people actually come out the other side in a more integrated place with their grief because they've had...

an ongoing outlet that lasted beyond just the one day funeral, you know, to kind of talk about their loved one, celebrate them, have something to look forward to, and, you know, finally have something beautiful at the end of it to show for that.

Brent Peterson (09:02.875)
You talked a little bit about the company that you joined and you didn't feel like there was a good synergy there. I'm assuming you have some funding now. Do you have some freedom in how you make your decisions as a founder? And maybe you don't feel constrained on having some backers.

Adelle (09:23.054)
Yeah. So just point of clarification, it actually wasn't a company I had joined. It was a, it was one of the original kind of original ashes to diamonds companies. And I was looking to be a customer and I was, you know, ultimately not super comfortable with how they were doing what they were doing. And so that was a big part of why transparency and integrity was very important for us day one. but, as for being a venture backed business, you know, certainly you're, you're signing up for kind of a different build where, you are.

giving more control away, more equity away, more equity ownership. But I think what I'm very fortunate and grateful for is that, you know, frankly, this industry is not for everybody. A lot of investors are like, end of life, you know, that's not my thesis. And so I think we actually more than most companies do.

attract investors that like truly resonate with what we do. They believe in our mission. They believe in how we're bringing brightness and meaning to loss and providing kind of an experiential better, yeah, better experience around it for people. So the people behind us are like our biggest advocates. And, you know, they've been a huge part of, of sharing this, of evangelizing, of opening doors. And so,

Yeah, I mean, I feel really fortunate. Like both our VCs, from our VCs to our angels to kind of celebrity investors that we have, there's a more authentic connection and sometimes personal, you know, I think that that's something that's been really like, I didn't expect how meaningful it would be that across the journey of building when our investors lose their loved ones, we get to do this for them. And then we get to deliver at home and they have like a whole nother level of connection when they see their mom get their sister home.

and are just in tears saying that was the best experience they've ever had and it helped their grief so much. Like what a different kind of investment to be a part of.

Brent Peterson (11:16.091)
We had a pre -meeting and you talked a little bit about which category you fit in and it's hard to find that category. Tell us or talk a little bit about the category and that you're really creating a new category and some of the strategy behind that.

Adelle (11:23.374)
Yeah, really.

Adelle (11:31.946)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I do believe in my opinion that there is, that this is essentially kind of an experiential offering that's never existed before an end of life. As a company, like that is our focus is serving somebody, you know, in the wake of losing somebody or somebody that's making their plans around, you know, what do I want my end of life to kind of entail my wishes to be.

And I think what is really unique and frankly didn't exist before us is that experiential side. We actually had Baylor University, which is a very, they have a very renowned grief program. They were so fascinated by this whole process we've designed. On average, our process takes like nine to 12 months to do. So, it really is kind of that period of time that we're walking with people and giving them something to look forward to.

And they found that 82 % of people coming out the other side were in a better and different place with their grief than people who did nothing at all. And I think it's really, you know, it actually kind of ties to some research around like the stages of grief. The gentleman who developed that, you know, he had the five stages of grief, and then he actually went through an experience of losing his son when he realized there's this six optional stage that's on offer for everybody, which is making meaning.

in the wake of loss, but you only really get there by doing something kind of active in your grief, finding ways to create meaning and to honor your loved one's legacy. So, you know, whether that's doing a diamond journey or, you know, going on a trip that you always wanted to go on, like those are the types of things that we talk about a lot in our content and our community. And, you know, a lot of, you know, the kind of the non -diamond aspects of what we're building, because we want...

to support more people in accessing that sixth stage of grief.

Brent Peterson (13:27.323)
Yeah, that's great. I know that you just brought to mind a movie, I think it's called The Way with Martin Sheen and they go on the Camino de Santiago and one of his sons has died and he uses that journey to help him to kind of close that off and not close off, but to grieve his loss and keep moving.

Adelle (13:35.658)
Yep.

Adelle (13:43.726)
Exactly.

Yeah, and do something meaningful and move forward. You know, that's, that's another thing we talk about is just like the idea of moving forward with your loved one as a part of your go forward rather than having to put it in a box and move on because there really is no moving on. That's just an unhealthy way of processing grief, you know,

Brent Peterson (14:05.211)
You mentioned in the notes we have some bits about being viral and you kind of being viral in an uncomfortable topic. Talk a little bit about how that works and I'm sure there's some pushback you get every once in a while.

Adelle (14:15.566)
Yeah.

Adelle (14:24.014)
Well, it was interesting. I think it's just the quintessential entrepreneurial story, especially when you're a category creator, because, you know, when you're starting something out in the beginning, like most people don't see it. So I remember when we started a turnover, it was a very 50 50 reaction of, you know, majority people had never had no idea that you could turn ashes to diamonds. And then some people were like, that's kind of weird versus, wow, that's really beautiful. And wow, how that's changed. But

you know, something we used to be told all the time is like, this is not a business you could actually build a brand in, you know, this is a sensitive topic, it's too hard, you can't talk directly to a consumer without coming off as predatory. And, you know, we just didn't really believe that. And, you know, I don't know, call us millennial or something. But I think we just like saw a vision for how we could open up a cultural conversation about end of life and a hard topic in an authentic and approachable way.

not dissimilar to the mental health conversation that's been opened up in the last decade. I think this is kind of just a next extension of it. And we just really leaned into storytelling, really good quality video storytelling. And I remember when we were a really young company, you know, at a time that like, probably didn't make sense to make this hire, like we hired a videographer who was great at social media storytelling. And it ended up being one of the best bets that we've ever made because...

by telling the stories of these incredible people and pets behind the diamonds, because you don't do a diamond for anybody that isn't like the coolest human you've ever heard of. Our stories just kept going viral over and over and over again, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. And now kind of fast forward, we've got 2 million followers and a good like 450 million organic views across all of our content. Like all of that is organically created. We're not paying for.

our demand across our social channels. And I think it just goes to show like people really resonated with this. I remember I was in Columbia on a coffee plantation, like doing like a tour of a coffee farm. And I started chatting with the you know, these other folks that were on it, and they were from Israel. And she asked what I did, I shared and she was just like,

Adelle (16:39.918)
my God, my daughter actually just showed me a company that's on TikTok, you know, that's doing this and she pulls it up and it's us. And it was just like, wow, how cool is that? You know?

Brent Peterson (16:50.235)
Yeah, tell us, I mean, you mentioned some celebrities and I know all those help. Is it, I mean, what defines viral in this and is it, is there a, I don't know, is there a lower threshold for being viral in this type of industry or is viral viral?

Adelle (17:10.734)
So viral viral, I think our most viral video is probably at 25 million organic views. So I think when I see other people mention viral, they're talking like 500 K to a million and we've had, you know, dozens that are in the like double digits, you know, of millions of views. And so yeah, I mean, a crowd like anything that's like 500 K and above, I would say we've probably had like 40 to 50. So yeah, like very, very viral and

I think it just goes to show that like loss is such a common experience. You know, they say that 80 % of Americans are grieving somebody or like something. And so whether that's a loved one that passed a pet that passed or you knowing somebody who just went through an experience of loss, I think good storytelling really resonates and it catalyzes people to go have a conversation and go home to mom and be like, Mom, what are we doing with that? Ashes in the closet? Like, why don't we finally do something meaningful?

you know, or talking to your hairdresser who just lost their dog. Hey, I saw this amazing company on Shark Tank. You know, you should really look into this. Like that's oftentimes how we acquire our customers. It's just kind of that authentic, you know, conversation that happens at home or around a dinner table.

Brent Peterson (18:24.251)
Do you think the appetite is growing for this type of, or for accepting this type of business? I go back to Amazon selling caskets and that's really transactional, but it was also sort of disruptive. I'm sure that helps the whole industry behind getting things rolling and the vision and mission that you have.

Adelle (18:43.502)
Yeah, totally.

Adelle (18:53.838)
I think, I don't know if Amazon is influencing things as much as first the consumer. You know, if we look at just cremation rates in the United States, we were only 10 % cremation in 1980. We're about to be 80 % cremation by 2040, which is just wild how fast that's changed. And with that, I think people are just looking for a big reason that they cremate is actually so that they can divvy up ashes so different family members can do different things.

we're also seeing a lot more people, frankly, kind of leaving the funeral home and having more of a celebration of life at home, or at the beach or someplace that feels a bit more kind of personal to their loved one. And so I think that's the mindset and people are increasingly moving towards a more kind of secularized, you know, less traditional way of, of choosing to honor their loved ones too. So that shift is, is impacting things.

And then really one of the biggest things that I saw was during COVID, pre -COVID was fascinating. We would share our stories and even journalists sometimes would be like, ooh, I don't want to talk about death, or I don't want to write about death. And then we all went through this shared experience together where honestly, death was a very real thing. And it was a very kind of scary thing of, could I get COVID and die? Or I know somebody who got COVID, could they die?

Or maybe you actually did have a loved one that passed from COVID or had a one degree connection to it. And so that experience actually I saw on the other side of that radically different perspective culturally and just openness to talk about end of life. Like we don't have journalistic objections anymore and it's just fascinating. I think that that was kind of really the shift, like a big shift in our cultural mindset to be like, I guess we have to talk about this stuff because it is part of life.

Brent Peterson (20:44.539)
to change gears a little bit and maybe to talk a little bit about the entrepreneurial journey that you're doing or you're going through and maybe I've always had this curiosity about co -CEOs. Tell us how you split up your duties and make sure that you're not stepping on each other's feet.

Adelle (21:03.246)
Yeah, I think honestly, it's kind of easy with the turnover because we have so many moving parts to our business that all of it for one person is a lot. And I can attest to that. My co -founder and I, we've had all kinds of challenges across the life cycle of building this company. But one in particular that was just really personal and really hard was in the wake of we were on Shark Tank. And right in the wake of that,

His daughter was born with a stage four brain cancer and, you know, Garrett had to leave and go fight for his daughter's life. And it was crazy. I mean, she had a less than 1 % chance of survival. There's no, you know, recorded statistics of people living with glioblastoma and she made it. And she is now like basically a studied, she just turned five and, you know, is officially cancer free and frankly, one of the first in history.

And, but when that happened, I had to step up and I had to kind of put the whole company on my back and keep everything going, without a partner. And that was honestly super, super challenging. And, you know, I think we both really, went through a lot and, it took a lot of resilience and a lot of perseverance, but I think with him being able to come back to the company, you know, it was just kind of this mutual, Hey, we want to carry this together. And.

drive things forward together. So I think because we went through that, we have a full appreciation for sharing the load. And yeah, then we really just have things divvied up. I oversee our marketing, our care team, and finance and fundraising. He oversees operations, manufacturing, sales, and IT. So plenty, plenty, plenty to keep us busy.

Brent Peterson (22:56.923)
Yeah, that's awesome. So this podcast is sponsored by Entrepreneurs Organization and it's interesting to hear different people's stories. Do you feel like your education got you what you needed or have you learned a lot outside of what you learned in college?

Adelle (23:22.318)
I mean, absolutely. Like there's nothing compares to real lived experience that, you know, kicks your butt at multiple points. Like that's where the real lessons are kind of physically ingrained, if you will. But I would say I went to the Acton School of Business and it's like, frankly, kind of the anti -MBA. It was designed by entrepreneurs, for entrepreneurs.

They take a two year program, they put it into nine months, they make you work 100 hours of work per week, and really are effectively trying to replicate what it feels like to be building a company where they give you way too much work that you could possibly do in the amount of time allotted and you have to choose what gets to fall off the plate and how do you fit in your life and your personal priorities around a really intensive, challenging curriculum.

It's full Socratic methods. So a lot of case study prep and the classroom is all discussion. Teachers only ask questions. They don't lecture on anything, you know, and they'll be like, okay, Brent, you're the CEO of Netflix 2015. Here's the situation. This is your board, you know, like what's the plan? And so I would say like it's an excellent, excellent program for anybody who wants to be an entrepreneur. They really are trying to.

support you in kind of having practical knowledge and wisdom and passing on their lessons learned as founders. And it primed me in a huge way for doing what I'm doing. I wish I could go back and do it again now with the experience that I had. I was 23, no business experience. And knowing what I know now, I'd be like, that lesson hits. It would hit different for sure.

Brent Peterson (25:05.851)
Yeah, you always have to go back and revisit what, and I, as an entrepreneur, I always think, you know, that my mistakes are what really makes, makes things, makes it validates what you've done right. And I think I make a lot more mistakes than I do it right. But usually the do it rights are what puts you over the top.

Adelle (25:21.486)
Yeah.

Adelle (25:27.694)
Yeah, 100%. No doubt.

Brent Peterson (25:30.683)
Do you think there's a little bit of energy or something magical, not magical, but yeah, magical about an entrepreneur that other people don't quite understand?

Adelle (25:40.398)
Hmm, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are mavericks in their own kind of way. You know, one of our angels is Andy Dunn and he wrote, he's the founder of Bonobos and he wrote an awesome book called Burn Rate. And I think it was wild. I'm gonna butcher this stat, but it was something like the population of entrepreneurs is 10x more likely to have Asperger's.

than kind of a general population. And it makes so much sense because, you know, they just, they see things from a lens that other people don't see. And, you know, they have a vision and a conviction of what could be. And, you know, I think back to when we started at Chernivtsi, it was so clear to me. I was like, this is going to resonate with people. This is such a beautiful way to honor someone. And I have a vision of exactly how to build it and how we can make this.

so heart forward and visionary and like bigger than just a product, you know, because it's not about the product, frankly, it's so much more and bigger than that. And people didn't get it in the beginning. And we had to kind of show them, you know, hey, here's, here's like what it could be. And now they're like, this is brilliant, you know, and you're like, yeah, it took us kind of thinking about it that way. But yeah, I do think that there's just.

I bless entrepreneurs. I think that they're such change agents and they create so much opportunity, they create so much evolution and are just such an example of what's possible in a lifetime if you're willing to play a big game and live outside your comfort zone. So I have a ton of respect for anybody that is building a company and really pushing themselves in that way.

Brent Peterson (27:18.619)
You mentioned storytelling earlier. How important is that in getting your vision out of your head? And I say from my own experience that a lot of times I'm very succinct in my communications and sometimes people see it as being very terse. Sometimes you have to tell more of a story to get your idea out there. And then you have to sell your story, right? You feel as though that's one of your strengths or your partner's strengths?

Adelle (27:34.83)
Mm.

Adelle (27:42.414)
Totally. Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's personal strengths. And I also think it's like, frankly, a huge part of our business model. I think one of the best ways that you can build a brand is like, if you sit on really great stories and you can tell them in a really impactful way, whether that's, you know, in a written form, in a video form, we just have such a wealth of user generated content. And also, I think that's a really great feature of a business model when you've got great user generated content.

that for us is just kind of creating that mechanism of making sure that we just are aware of all these awesome stories as they're becoming customers and then we can retell them and reshare them. I think that that's just a better way, frankly, to build a brand that's less about yourself. Because if I'm just talking about turning ashes to diamonds and how great a turn of is our technology and this and that, people are like, yeah, don't care as much. But

you know, when you're talking about how a mom lost her daughter to an opioid overdose and, you know, got to go through this experience and it created something beautiful and something hopeful. And then she had her daughter's diamond home and it became the conversation starter, you know, with her friends and family that were otherwise too uncomfortable to bring it up, you know, because it was a tragic loss she experienced, but being like, my God, let me see Megan's diamond. Wow. She's so beautiful. Like this is amazing.

it allowed her to feel so supported, you know, and to really kind of have a way to keep talking about her daughter. And you're like, wow, that's just like so much more compelling, you know, when you're kind of sharing these stories and allowing them to connect other people with shared experiences. So, yeah.

Brent Peterson (29:29.563)
Yeah, that's good. And you've just given us a great example of how well you tell a story. Thank you for that. Del, we have a few minutes left. It's gone very fast. I give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug at the very end of the podcast. What would you like to plug today?

Adelle (29:33.518)
Yeah.

Adelle (29:48.462)
I would say, well, you know, you've heard me talk about our storytelling. And so I would highly recommend like go follow our, if you're a TikToker or if you're more into the Instagram or if you're a YouTuber, all three of our channels, you know, are, have just incredible content. We have just really heartwarming stories and whether you're, you know, maybe you haven't even experienced loss, but trust me, they are just told in a way that,

will make you cry, but in a very hopeful and uplifting way. And I'm told a lot that it's like, if somebody's having a bad day, they'll literally go watch our videos on Instagram. So that would be my shameless plug. And I would also say, if you're interested in potentially exploring this process, our website is just eterneva .com.

and highly recommend just scheduling a call with our team. We're super, you know, no pressure whatsoever. We just get to know a lot about your loved one and make this super special and personal and walk you through how it works and answer your questions. Then it's a hundred percent up to you if this feels right or not. but you know, we think it's really important to know the people behind the company and to also understand like how much integrity goes into every aspect of our process. So.

yeah, we would be honored to connect with anybody that, you know, is just curious about the idea.

Brent Peterson (31:18.107)
And I'll make sure I get those links on the show notes and Adele, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, how would they do that?

Adelle (31:25.006)
Yeah, find me on LinkedIn. I would love to.

Brent Peterson (31:27.579)
Perfect. Adele Archer, thank you so much for being here today. It's been such a good conversation.

Adelle (31:33.614)
Thank you so much. Back at ya.